Part of the reason I never fully got along with the Catholic scene is because they almost always categorically oppose hereditarianism/soft eugenics and even economic libertarianism whereas it's been the atheist and Protestant parts of the right that support these things.
There's nothing theologically wrong with these ideas, it's just "ick" for them historically and I mean the 19th and 20th centuries. But the Catholic church did practice eugenics in the past by stamping out cousin marriage.
Yeah I agree. A lot of trads think the church went off the rails at Vatican 2. The reality is it was long before that.
I touch on it a little in my Sovereignty series (still unfinished), but the church made some unannounced but very important pivots after Westphalia. These have led to a lot of internal contradictions, at least if you take the hierarchy's political statements as both literal and authoritative.
I think the church went off the rails due to overreaction during the counter-reformation. A lot of 'dogmas' and the like broke from historical Christianity as much as Protestantism did.
I don't think the Catholic or Orthodox churches are the same as 'the early church' any more than modern day Orthodox Jewish movements are the same as medieval Judaism. All of them are just as divergent as movements that call themselves reformed. Except they buy into the lie of primitivism.
As a fellow TradCath its good to hear someone make such an honest syayement about race. Ive been lectured to about this, and it drices me crazy, because they always act like they are correcting a wayward child. The irony.
Yeah, it's really just moral cowardice. They're demoralized from having the leftist anti-racist gospel imposed on the actual gospel for so long, And they're so eager to be on the "right" side culturally for once, they can hardly contain their excitement when they have the opportunity to take the fashionable position. Just gross.
thankfully, my circle is all on the same page on the issue.
Kennedy's article does seem hasty. I'm not as convinced on genetic determinism since I see the adaptation and selection as reversible. Although it may be true and workable for practical means, it cannot be understood to preclude these people from having their culture turned around - leading to adaptation and selection improving their outcomes.
Sure, something is lost along the way. The world is fallen. One could say the same for Europeans since WWI, after losing a generation of the first to volunteer to fight.
The real shame is that traditional Catholicism was snuffed out from India, China, Africa, etc at very inopportune moments... And not allowed to reengage post-war at full tilt. Satan's plan. Some bishop's skulls in hell are Satan's footstool for their complicity in that.
You know how the heart yearns for new lands to discover? There they are, but will it be colonization or missionary work for the adventure seeker?
But still! True and workable. Mass deportation. Immigration limits. Assimilation. Allow self-segregation. End the Democratic ballot plantation.
Yeah, like I said in the article, genetics is certainly not deterministic. Individuals are still individuals. And I do hope that each culture will turn toward the good. However, I think this is much more likely if each race pursues its own unique cultural expression of the Truth, politically independent from each other. I think cross-pollination is often useful, but full scale migration forced on the host population has never once produced a good outcome.
And I would agree, there's a good argument to made that Whites have experienced significant dysgenic effects over the last century. Lotta work to do all around.
does anyone know about scholarly works addressing this point that Northern people were less tolerant to criminals and exterminated them to a level where it changed social dynamics? it's a fascinating point, I would like to learn more about it
I think this did happen and Protestant societies were much more ok with eugenics, mass sterilization, institutionalization, capital punishment, banning some people from marriage, etc. This had effects on the population.
I'll admit I based this assertion on essays I read by Will Tanner at the American Tribune here on Substack. I haven't read the scholarly work on it.
However, the twin studies I reference show strong heritability of these traits, which would lead one to reasonably infer that an aggressive penal policy would tend to reduce those behaviors over time.
I came across this from some AI searches: Cochran & Harpending’s The 10,000 Year Explosion. the theory is called "genetic pacification" repeated execution of violent offenders in medieval and early-modern Europe could have shifted the population toward less aggressive behavior over generations. Even Pinker flirts with this notion in The Better Angels of Our Nature, but Cochran & Harpending go all in on the mechanism..
Yeah Catholic societies were less squeamish about capital punishment and soft eugenics in the past. Remember they banned cousin marriage. Today's "seamless garment prolife" Catholicism is completely different and largely built up in response and reaction to mainstream Protestant society in America.
Yeah the Vatican's current position against the death penalty is basically material heresy.
As I've said elsewhere, the way forward is for contemporary Catholics to discover the time-honored pious Medieval expedient of Ignoring the Hierarchy TM
The temporal sword is its own thing, and its about time to swing it.
Part of the reason I never fully got along with the Catholic scene is because they almost always categorically oppose hereditarianism/soft eugenics and even economic libertarianism whereas it's been the atheist and Protestant parts of the right that support these things.
There's nothing theologically wrong with these ideas, it's just "ick" for them historically and I mean the 19th and 20th centuries. But the Catholic church did practice eugenics in the past by stamping out cousin marriage.
Yeah I agree. A lot of trads think the church went off the rails at Vatican 2. The reality is it was long before that.
I touch on it a little in my Sovereignty series (still unfinished), but the church made some unannounced but very important pivots after Westphalia. These have led to a lot of internal contradictions, at least if you take the hierarchy's political statements as both literal and authoritative.
I think the church went off the rails due to overreaction during the counter-reformation. A lot of 'dogmas' and the like broke from historical Christianity as much as Protestantism did.
I don't think the Catholic or Orthodox churches are the same as 'the early church' any more than modern day Orthodox Jewish movements are the same as medieval Judaism. All of them are just as divergent as movements that call themselves reformed. Except they buy into the lie of primitivism.
Vatican II killed Catholicism stone cold dead but it went off the rails with Gregory II.
As a fellow TradCath its good to hear someone make such an honest syayement about race. Ive been lectured to about this, and it drices me crazy, because they always act like they are correcting a wayward child. The irony.
Yeah, it's really just moral cowardice. They're demoralized from having the leftist anti-racist gospel imposed on the actual gospel for so long, And they're so eager to be on the "right" side culturally for once, they can hardly contain their excitement when they have the opportunity to take the fashionable position. Just gross.
thankfully, my circle is all on the same page on the issue.
Kennedy's article does seem hasty. I'm not as convinced on genetic determinism since I see the adaptation and selection as reversible. Although it may be true and workable for practical means, it cannot be understood to preclude these people from having their culture turned around - leading to adaptation and selection improving their outcomes.
Sure, something is lost along the way. The world is fallen. One could say the same for Europeans since WWI, after losing a generation of the first to volunteer to fight.
The real shame is that traditional Catholicism was snuffed out from India, China, Africa, etc at very inopportune moments... And not allowed to reengage post-war at full tilt. Satan's plan. Some bishop's skulls in hell are Satan's footstool for their complicity in that.
You know how the heart yearns for new lands to discover? There they are, but will it be colonization or missionary work for the adventure seeker?
But still! True and workable. Mass deportation. Immigration limits. Assimilation. Allow self-segregation. End the Democratic ballot plantation.
Yeah, like I said in the article, genetics is certainly not deterministic. Individuals are still individuals. And I do hope that each culture will turn toward the good. However, I think this is much more likely if each race pursues its own unique cultural expression of the Truth, politically independent from each other. I think cross-pollination is often useful, but full scale migration forced on the host population has never once produced a good outcome.
And I would agree, there's a good argument to made that Whites have experienced significant dysgenic effects over the last century. Lotta work to do all around.
Well done.
Thank you!
boomers are enemy of the people!
Another banger from my Lord
Obviously false that Jews are not "white" and Slavs are: most of the anti-white left has the same or worse attitudes towards Jews.
I prefer the Novus Ordo and love me some Vatican 2. You should submit this article to crisis. I enjoyed reading it. God bless!!
Vehemently disagree on V2 and the NO, obviously. Thank you though.
does anyone know about scholarly works addressing this point that Northern people were less tolerant to criminals and exterminated them to a level where it changed social dynamics? it's a fascinating point, I would like to learn more about it
I think this did happen and Protestant societies were much more ok with eugenics, mass sterilization, institutionalization, capital punishment, banning some people from marriage, etc. This had effects on the population.
I'll admit I based this assertion on essays I read by Will Tanner at the American Tribune here on Substack. I haven't read the scholarly work on it.
However, the twin studies I reference show strong heritability of these traits, which would lead one to reasonably infer that an aggressive penal policy would tend to reduce those behaviors over time.
I came across this from some AI searches: Cochran & Harpending’s The 10,000 Year Explosion. the theory is called "genetic pacification" repeated execution of violent offenders in medieval and early-modern Europe could have shifted the population toward less aggressive behavior over generations. Even Pinker flirts with this notion in The Better Angels of Our Nature, but Cochran & Harpending go all in on the mechanism..
Yeah Catholic societies were less squeamish about capital punishment and soft eugenics in the past. Remember they banned cousin marriage. Today's "seamless garment prolife" Catholicism is completely different and largely built up in response and reaction to mainstream Protestant society in America.
Yeah the Vatican's current position against the death penalty is basically material heresy.
As I've said elsewhere, the way forward is for contemporary Catholics to discover the time-honored pious Medieval expedient of Ignoring the Hierarchy TM
The temporal sword is its own thing, and its about time to swing it.